Podcast - April 30, 2024
Latest Episode: Navigating New Fatherhood: Financial Tips for Welcoming Your Baby
As Josh steps into his new role as a dad, he and Colin explore the essential financial steps for new parents. From healthcare costs to college funds, they break down how to manage your finances when expanding your family. Discover actionable strategies in this podcast episode that every prospective parent should hear before the big day arrives.
The transcript is automatically generated
Announcer: Welcome to Barenaked Money, the podcast where we strip down the complex world of finance to its bare essentials with your hosts, Josh Sheluk and Colin White, portfolio managers with Verecan Capital Management Inc.
Colin White: Welcome to the next episode of Barenaked Money. Coming at you with something that is actually bare naked. We’re going to talk about preparing to welcome a baby into the family unit. And, Josh, just for the record, babies do show up naked, so you’re not, you know, confused by that when it happens. So
Josh Sheluk: Well, that’s good to know. If I hadn’t have done so many birthing courses by now, I I might not be aware of that. But thank you, Colin.
Colin White: So I I I assume, Josh, that you wanna share with them the the that the fact that this is a very personal podcast for you?
Josh Sheluk: Yeah. So I’m having a baby, and it’s weeks away at this point. So I thought, what better to talk about on this episode than how to prepare financially for a new child? I’m not going to give any parenting advice at this point aside from how to prepare the money side of the equation.
Colin White: And before we start getting comments, Josh is not actually having the baby. It’s his wife’s having the baby, and that’s an important distinction that I’m sure somebody will point out if we don’t, correct that during this part.
Josh Sheluk: Thank you for clarifying.
Colin White: Alright. So where do you wanna start, Josh? Like, where where does your mind go? When when or where did your mind go? Or where has your mind gone during this process?
Josh Sheluk: Yeah. Well, I think where it starts for me is, okay, what do I need to buy for a new baby? Right? And there I I think this is one area where I’ve been maybe a little bit surprised or you just you don’t really realize all the things that you need before you start down this path. And, obviously, you know, you need the diapers, you need the high chair, you need the stroller, and all that stuff.
So that that to me is pretty obvious, but then you start going through, well, we didn’t really have a room that’s furnished for a baby. So I need a crib, and we need a changing table. We need a new dresser. We need this and that, and we need a chair in there for nursing. And it it starts to add up pretty quick.
So that was the first realization and the thing that hits financially first and foremost is I’m starting to spend money or I have been anyway over the last 6 months spending money on things that I would not normally buy. And a lot of these are fairly big ticket items. So that is what I thought about first and, has had the most significant financial impact up to this point.
Colin White: Well and and this is where the blurring begins because, you know, the the the natural tendency of new parents is I want to do what’s right for my child. And believe it or not, and I know this may catch you by surprise, there are companies that will take this motivation and prey upon it and maybe convince you of things that maybe are not entirely true. Like, it may surprise you, Josh, that not every baby gets its own room with a special chair just to feed it.
Josh Sheluk: Like, that’s what aware of. Yes. That could be over I could I could see how that’s overkill. Yes.
Colin White: No. No. No. It’s not over no. No.
You you you cannot fault the parenting instinct that kicks in to provide an environment that you think is as perfect and as best as you can make it. But the problem is is that impulse is almost infinite. You know, as as far as I need one more thing. Like, I need to have the the right fiber in the swaddling cloth because if I don’t do that, then there’s a a 25% chance that they’re gonna develop, you know, allergies to something. Right?
Sure. And and and there are evil forces in the world that will try to prey upon these things, but it does have a financial consequence for sure.
Josh Sheluk: Yeah. Well, you say I’d be surprised about preying on somebody’s vulnerabilities, but we work in the finance industry, Colin, so this does not surprise me one little bit.
Colin White: Yeah. No. Fairball. Fairball. Maybe not you, but it it it’s Yeah.
Sometimes surprising that people would go into something that’s so so important and go to there to make money and only make money at whatever, you know, whatever cost necessary.
Josh Sheluk: Yeah. So that that was, again, the first thing that’s kinda jumped up, but it’s been alarming as well, some of the costs. And it’s it’s one of those things where it’s a pretty easy sell, I think, if you’re a product provider for a baby. It’s like, well, don’t you want the safest stroller for your baby? Don’t you want the safest car seat for your baby?
It’s it’s pretty easy. It’s like, well, yeah. Of course, I wanna be safe for my baby. So but it was funny because I was talking to a friend of mine on the phone a while back, and, of course, as we do at this age, we’re talking about strollers, and he just had twins. Yeah.
I know it’s hilarious. He just had twins. So he said, guess how much this is before I bought my stroller for for our upcoming baby. He said, guess how much a twin stroller is? And I guess, I don’t know, $600 or something like that.
And he just laughed at me. So now some of these strollers that come with all kinds of bells and whistles like, you know, leather leather wrapped, handles and all terrain wheels and all this stuff, which you probably don’t need. But I I have been, again, surprised at some of the the significance of some of these costs, for some of the more important items for sure.
Colin White: Oh, no. Because you need dead man’s switch. Because what happens if you, you know, take your hands off the stroller and it runs in traffic? You know? I mean, you know, is that how you want your baby to die?
No. I don’t want my baby to die that way. No. In fact, it was it’s interesting because, like, I you sprung this topic on me, like, literally 15 minutes ago. But earlier today, not knowing that we’re coming into this, there was an article where somebody had bought the absolute Cadillac of of of baby monitor to install the room and attract things like respiration and heart rate and eye movement.
And like it was just it tracked absolutely everything. But after they paid $700 worth, they realized that all of those monitoring things you had to subscribe to. There was a monthly fee, actually. No. So not not only was the $700 upfront, but you have to, like, actually subscribe to get all these other features to remain active with the product.
And I’m going, you wow. You know? Just just just just wow.
Josh Sheluk: And and to think we had this whole generation and and and many, many generations of of babies that have survived with just audio or no monitor whatsoever. Can you believe that?
Colin White: Baby monitors, you’re out of your mind. There was no baby when I was a kid, there was no baby monitors. They were they were the audio ones were you know, when I had kids, yeah, you can get an audio baby monitor that with that. And that was pretty much standard. And that was so you’d go next door and have a glass of wine and feel like you were looking after your kid.
I mean, that that that’s kind of the old school
Josh Sheluk: way of doing it. Yeah. Yeah. Very good. So the the next thing, cost wise, expense wise that’s come up for me is is more so on the budgeting side of things, and this is going forward for when we have the new baby.
And so it comes from 2 angles. 1, there’s probably some additional costs. But I think for a newborn, probably and you can correct me if I’m wrong, but maybe somewhat minimal aside from diapers and things like that. There’s probably not a ton of stuff that you need on a regular basis for a newborn. But more so on the income side because my wife is working right now, and she won’t be working.
Once the baby comes, she’s taken a 1 year mat leave. So that’s gonna be a pretty significant difference for us on the income side, and that’s also gonna mean budgeting needs to change a little bit.
Colin White: Well, it changes on a number of fronts. Right? So number 1, you know, maybe your travel is not gonna be as frequent during that year. Right? So you’re gonna and maybe you’re not you’re not gonna be going out to eat as much, and you don’t get to play hockey anymore, and you don’t get you know, all the things you’re having fun with now.
Woah. Woah. Woah.
Josh Sheluk: Woah. Woah.
Colin White: Well, I’m just saying. Like, you know
Josh Sheluk: I will be playing hockey. Just maybe not as much, but I’ll be playing hockey. Don’t worry about that.
Colin White: No. But, you know, everything changes. Right? And then it it’s there there are pluses and minuses for sure. And, yeah, I was gobsmacked with how expensive diapers were.
Like, it just blew my mind how much money went on diapers and how many diapers you need and how quickly one can oh, this one’s gone. You know, like almost like 10 that that lasted 10 seconds. Yeah. Yeah. Stuff like that happened for sure.
But no, it’s a complex time to step back and actually gives, you know, some financial context. It’s a complex time and it’s a very emotional time. So in addition to that burgeoning, I have to protect my child and yes, I want the safest for my child. So you have all this super emotional decision making at a time when things are very complex. So it’s a very fraught time.
You can do yourself significant financial harm at this moment. Like, it’s it’s very easy to do and it’s very, well, of course, I want the best for my child is a justification to pretty much do anything, like up to up to and including giving up a kidney. But, you know, what I say to parents, I say this to parents of all ages, the most the most biggest gift you can give to a child is to give them a financially secure environment. You know, so if you mortgage things to the point that money becomes such a stress, that the whole household has a super high level of monetary stress, it doesn’t matter whether or not you go to Disney, It doesn’t matter whether or not you get the best stroller. None of that is gonna matter to that child if everybody is running with such a level of financial stress that it’s miserable.
Right? And it’s easy to turn that upside down and chase all these things that are super justifiable. You can never challenge a parent. You can never challenge a parent as, like, well, why are you wasting the money on the stroller? Well, of course, I love my kid.
I’m supposed to give him the stroller. Mhmm. And you really there’s no rational comeback to that because, like, you’re now in in daddy bear. Of course, I’m gonna give this to my child. But the math is gonna math.
And if you dig yourself a big enough of a hole, there’s gonna be a constant there’d be a reckoning that that comes from that. So my my suggestion is to try to make rational decisions on here’s the limit. Like, I’m gonna spend this much money. And every time you spend, go back and do the math. Like, okay, what did that do to my number?
Yep. Right? And and make some compromises to try to stay within it. Try to make it a little bit of a rational process. It is a bit of a losing battle because, you know, I would stab you in the throat if it meant saving one of my children, which is something I have never done and I don’t think I would ever want to do.
But, yeah, if I needed to, I would stab you in the throat to protect one of my kids. That’s just what parents do. Right?
Josh Sheluk: Yeah. For sure. For sure. Oh, yeah. We found going through the the mat leave, compensation via EI is is quite insufficient for relative to a normal salary for for most working people.
So we’re looking at about $650 per week, through EI, which is it’s something, it’s probably not the be all and end all, and you gotta prepare financially and and and mentally and budget wise for this because it probably requires some changes. Now fortunately, Heather’s got a bit of top up through her employer, which I think a lot of employers are doing now depending on where you are, which will help a little bit, but that’s not gonna last, last the whole the whole 12 month mat leave. So there will definitely be a shortfall of income at some point throughout the, the period of time. So that’s, I think as as upcoming parents, it’s something that you should probably understand or try to understand ahead of time. So it’s not a surprise when it comes to be.
Colin White: Well, even if you zoom out a little bit because the the act of or the decision to have a family isn’t straightforward. It’s not like you decide you’re gonna have a family. It’s like, okay. We’re gonna get pregnant on this day and here’s the timeline. Sure.
Right? So you kinda make a decision like, yeah. We’d like to have a family and then you then things have to happen. And they may or may not happen on a schedule. But I can wind this all the way back to the advice I give everybody financially is have slack in your system.
Like, do not be down to the nickel. Like, you know, do not put yourself in a position that you’ve got no wiggle room. And, you know, if you’re anticipating maybe having kids or you’re in a stage of life where a kid could happen, I’ve had clients and I’ve had close friends slip 1 by the goalie late in life and all of a sudden you got 1 kid in university and the second one’s just starting school. You know, you have to have the financial ability to deal with that. Yep.
You know, so having financial slack in your life, this is another one of the 50,000,000 examples of why that’s important. If you if you again, if you’re down to every nickel counts and you’ve got 3 trips to Disney every year and you’ve got the recreational property and 5 vehicles and all the other stuff you think you need to have lifestyle wise, but the least little wrinkle plus or minus a new kid is gonna screw it up, then you’re it’s a risk. You’re taking a risk, and you’re gonna provide a very financially stressful situation when these things come along.
Josh Sheluk: Yeah. And I’ve been talking a lot about budget when you have a newborn and when one of the spouses might be off work. But the reality is kids cost money, and they’re going to cost money for a long time, not just for the 1st year. So it’s not something that maybe be taken lightly from a financial perspective either. It’s it’s it’s more it’s more than just a family decision.
It’s also a financial decision along the way.
Colin White: Yeah. And it changes your priorities. Like, when you talk to a couple that does not have children, their view of the world is completely changed. 1 another being shows up. And there’s the the the very pragmatic, yes, there’s another child here, but there’s also the emotion like, oh my god.
I brought this into the world. It’s now my responsibility. I want the best for it in everything. And then everybody’s version of what the best is is different. And then the the freaking thing’s gonna disappoint you and make you cry in a way you never thought you could cry before and be a huge disappointment to you.
And and you feel obligated to and, anyway, there’s gonna be a whole range of things you go through with the kit as as it goes through life, and it’s changing your priorities. And we sit down and talk to a client about what are your goals. You know, absent kids, here are my goals. And one of the goals may be having a kit, but that goal then colors every other goal that comes after that. Like, it change it can change your retirement date.
It can change the the house that you’re living in. It can change your priorities for having a recreational property. It can it can change everything. And that’s the human condition. So it’s not one and done.
Like, you don’t do a plan or or or or or do a one budget and say that’s gonna carry all the way through because your priorities are gonna change. Mhmm.
Josh Sheluk: Well, I’m glad you brought up changing goals and changing priorities because I think one of the things that can also change in fair fairly in the immediate term is your savings approach or what you wanna save for more specifically. Right? So a lot of times, new parents, they’re thinking about education. That’s a significant cost at some point down the road. It’s something that I definitely like to save for for my child.
And there’s a savings vehicle that’s specifically designed to save for that purpose. So that’s one thing for those parents that do wanna make this a priority. You can look at an RESP, registered education savings plan early on, and that’s something I’m looking forward to taking advantage of because, hey, it’s free money from the government. So might as well take my take, every pound I can get of that. That’s for sure.
Colin White: Well, no. And RESPs are one of the few things in the world I say there’s just no downside to them. RESPs are frigging wonderful. Like, and they’re well set up and they aren’t restrictive. But we should take this opportunity to say that the scholarship trusts that are out there are just the side of evil and, you know, are very, very restrictive and you wanna be careful.
So make sure if you’re going down the road, having it and education is important to you and you wanna fund it, that you have a nice open RESP to work with because there’s all kinds of flexibilities in working one of those. But this is also a good time to bring up something else because some people, when they’re before kids have a certain amount of money going into their RSPs. That’s their goal and it’s important to them. I’m gonna put x amount of money in my RSP every year. Then kid comes along and you wanna continue putting the money in your RSP and put money in the RRR and RESP.
And then also all the other expenses that come along. And all of a sudden you twist yourself into a pretzel going, this is so stressful. Like, you know, I can’t possibly do all this. You know? Something’s gotta give.
Maybe. Just throwing it out here. You don’t make RSP contributions for a couple years. Mhmm. And maybe that’s okay.
Maybe that’s not the end of the world for you. You can treat this as an arc. Like, maybe for the 1st 5 years of the kid’s life when maybe 1 or both of the parents is gonna be taking time off and income’s gonna be lower, you You can say, you know what? For the next 5 years, let’s not worry about making RSP contributions until we get to point x, and then we can start it up again. That’s not the stupidest thing.
Yeah. That’s not an evil thing, and it can dramatically improve everybody’s state of mind. And, you know, it doesn’t mean you necessarily are giving up on your financial goals. You’re just putting them in order saying that, you know, for this period of time, we’re not gonna do it, then we’re gonna get back to it at this period of time. That’s okay.
And if you’re and the people who are hardcore savers have trouble doing that. Like, if I’m not putting my money away, then I’m a failure. Shut up. No. You’re not.
You’re just at a point and stage where it doesn’t make sense, and that’s okay. Come back to it later. They’ll lose track of it. And there are those out there who once they stop, they’ll never gonna go back to that. They always have a reason not to.
I need a bigger minivan or or whatever else is coming up.
Josh Sheluk: Yeah. Yeah. That’s and that’s a good point. And, a couple of the other things that I’ve realized are are changing or temporarily, put on hold during, a mat leave or a paternity leave as well. Things like RSP contributions like you mentioned, like, it doesn’t really make a whole lot of sense to contribute to an RSP if you’re not making any income, but also pension plans get put on hold temporarily.
And, for Heather, for example, her employee stock ownership plan, She can actually keep participating in that while she’s on mat leave, but I’m sure that’s something that might change for a lot of individuals as well depending on what their their employers like. So there’s a lot of little things on the savings side that are gonna be potentially put on hold for a year. To your point, it’s not the end of the world. It’s it’s probably not make or break for the long term financial situation, but it is something to be aware of.
Colin White: Well, it it’s a reasonable cost. Now you have to be flexible with your expectations. If you if anybody out there thinks I’m gonna have a kid, that’s not gonna change my financial priorities or or change my financial outcome, you need to pull your head out of your ass. Like, just stop. It’s not free to raise a kid.
You’re not gonna be able to do everything that you thought you could do without a kid once you have a kid. Mhmm. Absolve yourself of that thought. Like, there’s gonna be a change. Now you get to control and make some choices in making that change, but there’s gonna be a change.
And, you know, it’s very easily to expect that, hey, without a kid, I could retire at this age, but if I have kids, I’m gonna have to work more or longer. That’s a very reasonable expectation. Now again, if the you it’s have a good relationship with your kids, it could be very rewarding, could be the most wonderful thing in the world for you and very important on all the other levels. But, you know, again, know that things are gonna change. Accept things are gonna change, and don’t fight the things.
Don’t fight everything. Just it’s okay not to make financial progress for a short period of time and then to get back on track.
Josh Sheluk: Yep. So another thing that for me especially has been reevaluating is the insurance side of things and life insurance specifically. So I think at any life event, it’s probably worthwhile to reevaluate your insurance coverage and whether it makes sense for you. But this is one that I think is particularly important. I was in the camp of with just a spouse.
I’m pretty comfortable saying that if I pass away or she passes away, we are able to make pretty significant lifestyle changes if needed financially. Mhmm. Yep. And comfortable with that. With a kid involved, little bit less desirable to have to make significant lifestyle changes if something happens.
Yep. Death or disability specifically. So this is an opportunity for us, Heather and I to reevaluate our life insurance coverage, make sure that it made sense, make sure that we are properly protected in the event that something unlikely happened to one of us. But it extends beyond that to disability coverage as well. And and anything that’s really gonna protect you in the event of a death or disability in the family.
Colin White: Yeah. Because the the there’s the it’s easy looking from the outside and say you’ve got an obligation to provide for that new life you brought in the world, and that’s something that many people would do. But the how you feel about bringing that other life into the world and the level of responsibility you feel to it is otherworldly. And, you know, it it does dramatically change your perspective. And, yeah, all of a sudden, it becomes more important.
Yeah. My wife and I either went to us you know, we’re willing to make those sacrifices, and we can make that choice. But as soon as you get into the mouth in there, it’s like, well, I don’t wanna make that choice on their behalf. Like, I I feel the responsibility to not let that happen and that you do behave completely differently.
Josh Sheluk: Yeah. So, yeah, like I said, it was an opportunity for us to reevaluate. Now not only that, and this fortunately for Heather and I, this is all well covered, but I’m blown away by how many young parents do not have a will in place.
Colin White: Oh, here we go.
Josh Sheluk: Maybe I shouldn’t have what what? Here we go what?
Colin White: Well, but no. No. But but you’re right. Because you’re absolutely right. Because every time I look at this, every time it gets brought up, I go, like, I am just just completely gobsmacked with how stupid people are about not doing this.
Right? And, you know, it well, I’ll wait until, you know, after the kids hear, then we’ll then we’ll do a will. Like, why? Like, you had to you don’t like okay.
Josh Sheluk: You think you’re gonna have more time after the kids here to do this?
Colin White: Exactly. You’re you’re currently pregnant. Well, it’s not really an issue until they get here. You know how it works. Right?
Like, it’s coming. Like, it’s predictable. No. It’s it absolutely drive me it drives me nuts. And, unfortunately, it’s super common when tragedies happen.
And and part of my bias or perspective is when shit goes sideways, it ends up on my desk. So maybe we spend more time dealing with the chitartery of not doing this right, which gets me more wound up about yelling at people who aren’t doing it right. And they’re all going, oh, it’s such a small percentage chance. But it happens. And the amount of grief that it causes when it’s not properly looked after, the 1,000 of dollars in fees and and years of delay in getting stuff solved is just, oh, come on, please.
Like, if if if you care anything about anybody in your life, like, look after it.
Josh Sheluk: Yep. Yeah. I guess that would be our PSA. Like, it it’s a pretty simple thing to do. It takes some time, a little bit of money, but it’s a pretty simple thing to do and requires a bit of thought.
It’s it’s Well
Colin White: and and this is why some people and and I’ll give credit to people who avoid doing it because there’s sometimes tough decisions need to be made. Yep. And they don’t they don’t wanna have the conversation. Like, you know, the spouses could be looking at each other going, I want your parents nowhere near my kids. You know, like if we’re gone, it’s not going to your parents.
And you go, well, of course it’s going to my parents. It can trigger a bad conversation. I will absolutely give you that. The only thing that’s worse is not having a will and letting that sort out after you’re not there. Like, that’s the only thing that would be worse than having that conversation.
So, you know, having that conversation and sometimes engaging a professional, they can give you a a middle ground that you didn’t you weren’t aware of. They can have a solution for a problem that you think is intractable. There’s no way around this. Well, you could do it this way. Oh, I didn’t know that was possible.
That’s why you asked the professional. Maybe the professional has a way that can deal with whatever is holding you back from doing it. But, no, I I there’s no way to put a number on it. It’s a 1000000000 percent important that you take those steps because otherwise, it’s it’s not gonna work out in anybody’s best interest.
Josh Sheluk: Yeah. Yeah. One thing that I I didn’t mention coming back to the insurance side of things is is just health and dental coverage. So it’s, again, fortunately for Heather and I, we don’t really have any concerns on this front immediately. But one of the things that when you have a life event like this that you need to do is you need to add that new beneficiary to your your group benefits coverage, your health and dental.
So that’s one thing that we need to make a priority. And for Heather being on mat leave, she actually needs to take her benefits payment. She’s not getting paid anymore, so her employer is not covering the benefits. So to continue with the benefit, she needs to actually be be charging that to her bank account. So just little transactional type things like that that need to happen to make sure everything continues as smoothly as possible when, when the baby comes.
Colin White: Well, it’s also a time where the the woman’s health can change. Like, it’s it’s there’s all kinds of very common things that can occur because it’s they’re growing another human being. Like, you know, that’s not a small undertaking from a physical perspective. So it can be a time that there’s health changes. And to make sure that all the insurances are properly looked after in advance is a big deal because it may get more complicated later.
Josh Sheluk: Mhmm. That’s all I got, Colin. I’m sure I forgot about a a few things or I’ll learn a few things over the next few years, and we can circle back on this. But is there anything that I’m not thinking about, pre baby here, few weeks out that I really need to think about?
Colin White: No. I think we we’ve covered it all or covered a lot of of what you need to think about right now, but I’ll circle back to the idea that the best thing you can give a child is a financially secure, stable, and relaxed environment, and keep that in mind. So set boundaries for your spending. Set expectations in a way that is sustainable so you don’t cause undue stress and piss everybody off in the room because that does not lead to good things. So try to, as much as you can, build a room that you can exist in and be emotional and not wreck it.
You know, just create a financial construct that you can live within and not cause collateral damage to the rest of your life unintentionally so that all of a sudden you’re 70 years old going, fuck, I couldn’t afford to have kids. I still
Josh Sheluk: have to work. And that’s probably good advice at all times, not just when you’re having a kid. So
Colin White: It is. But one of those times you need you need to shout it into this moment because you’re going, I’ll do anything for my kid. Yes. I want the safest stroller and the best monitor and the I need a bigger minivan that’s got the 8 star safety rating, and it’s easy to get carried away.
Josh Sheluk: Thanks Thanks for all the advice today, Colin.
Colin White: No worries. Thanks, Josh.
Announcer: Just a quick note to say that Baby Sheluk arrived safe and sound not long after we recorded this episode. Mom and Baby are doing great and so is Josh. Congratulations, Josh and Heather.
Colin White: If you’re breaking a sweat trying to figure out what your financial advisor is talking about, you’re not getting the service you need. You probably hate trying to get an answer from them, but you also think moving your accounts will be a headache. And it might be. But working with Dontrocktheboatwealthplanning.com or.ru isn’t exactly stress free, is it? Call us.
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Listeners should be aware that investing involves risks and that past performance is not indicative of future results. Barenaked Money is produced by Verecan Capital Management Inc, a licensed portfolio management company in Canada. We operate under the regulatory framework established by the provincial securities commissions in the provinces within which we operate. The views expressed in the podcast are our own and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of any regulatory authority. Remember, at VeriCann Capital Management Inc, we focus on aligning our goals with yours, prioritizing integrity and transparency.
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