This transcript has been automatically generated.

Josh Sheluk: Should I invest or not? Because we the people that’s what the people want. Right?

Colin White: Okay. So the answer is no. Next question.

Kathryn Toope: Welcome to Barenaked Money, the podcast where we strip down the complex world of finance to its bare essentials with your hosts, Josh Sheluk and Colin White, portfolio managers with Verecan Capital Management Inc.

Josh Sheluk: Welcome to the next episode of Barenaked Money. Colin and Josh here coming at you as usual, and we’re here to pull back the shower curtain as we always do, talk about money the way it should be talked about, plainly, close off, not literally, of course, and without the sales pitch. Barenaked Money here, portfolio managers of Aircan Capital. If you’re looking for straightforward advice from a firm whose only angle is to make you better off and better informed, visit betteradvice.ca to get started. And, Colin, today, we’re talking about IPOs.

Colin White: Yes. We are because we do the topical things everybody wants to hear about. And I bet you that there’s a good percentage of our listening audience that doesn’t know what IPO stands for. So I figured we’d start there. Josh, what does IPO stand for?

Josh Sheluk: Initial public offering

Colin White: Here we go. Is what

Josh Sheluk: it is.

Colin White: There we go. So in the life cycle of a business, you know, somebody gets a great idea and they start a business up, then you go through series of funding and they can fund it different ways. They can go to friends and family. They can borrow. They can go to venture capital.

They can go to angel investors. But most of the people that invest in those companies someday want what they would call a liquidity event. They want to take the company public so that they can make boatload of money off being successful early investors and sell it off into the world. So there’s bit of a life cycle to a business that gets to the point that it wants to be a public company. And in the last few years, we’ve had a concern that our public markets were getting too small.

There was too many companies being taken private. And recently, it seems that the tide is going back out again and public markets have become popular. So, Josh, any idea why going public right now has has gotten more popular? Did you wanna tackle that one?

Josh Sheluk: I have a few ideas, but we should just distinguish between public and private for everybody. Listen. So private is your your friends and family, somebody that you call up on the phone and say, hey. Do you wanna invest in my business? Anybody that you can call through, we would call, I guess, an over the counter type of relationship.

You find somebody or they find you, they give you money to invest in your business. That would be a private relationship or private funding. Public is this beautiful thing that we call the stock market. When you’re going to the stock market and raising capital, raising money, and listing your company on a stock market, on a stock exchange, that’s a public business. So as you can imagine, being public just makes your company available to more people and more people’s money available to you as a company.

So I think what we’ve seen over the last couple decades, really, is more and more companies staying private as it’s been more there’s been more money accessible through private channels than there has been in the past. I think that’s probably more true today than it ever has been. As you can just think of it logically, there’s it’s easier to connect with people than it ever has been. So, therefore, it should be easier to raise capital from people on a private basis than it ever has been. But at some point, you’ve tapped out all of those different tentacles, all of those different connectors that you can make on a private basis.

You’ve tapped those out. There’s no more money available. And there could be the cynical view of this is if you wanna get really rich and and get the public money and and, you know, jack up the value of your company, then maybe that’s that’s the outlet. I think maybe the more practical and and more common reason is once you’ve tapped out the availability of private money, if you still need money to grow, then public is really your only option.

Colin White: Also important note here, there’s different there can be some different motivations. Private companies do not have the same kind of disclosure requirements. If you go public, there’s lots of rules, regulations, and and it’s very visible. And I I know don’t know where I heard it, but there was a great quote. Lack of transparency has never worked in the favor of an investor.

And the private markets and with the popularity of the private markets recently, they’ve kinda leaned into that. So there are companies that like the private space because they don’t have to be as fulsome with their disclosure. It’s less burdensome. It’s less cost. Like, you have to spend less money on reporting and things of that nature.

So there’s a trade off when you go into the public markets. Yes. You can you know, it’s accessible, it’s very expensive and it requires a lot of disclosures. And you lose a little bit of the control in some some ways as to what the value of your company is. They try hard to and we’ll talk about this, I think, the pod progresses, but they they try hard at the time of the public offering to get the most that they can for it because that’s normally when the insiders are selling off and wanna see, you know, some of that money that they have earned by investing in early stages in these companies.

So so yeah. Is is that a good enough of a foundation, Josh, do you think, to have people under understand some of the rest of the silliness we’re gonna get into?

Josh Sheluk: Yeah. Well, we’ve gone five minutes without mentioning the word SpaceX, So I think that’s that’s successful. We we could already chalk this up as a successful podcast because that’s kinda why we’re here Oh. Today, I think.

Colin White: We’re we’ve we’ve lost listeners because everybody else wants to hear SpaceX in the first thirty seconds. So

Josh Sheluk: Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. So I I think as we usually do, again, pulling back the shower curtain, providing a little bit more of a grounded viewpoint, we’re here to provide some facts and some observations about IPOs. SpaceX obviously being the most well, literally the largest, most prominent, IPO that we’ve ever had.

So it’s a good time to talk about it.

Colin White: Where do you wanna start, Josh? Do you wanna start with some of the things that may have influenced us, inclusion and indexes and stuff like that, or do you have a different order you’d like to?

Josh Sheluk: Well, why don’t we just start with IPOs? Should I invest or not? Because we the people that’s what the people want. Right? So why don’t why don’t we go right there

Colin White: Okay.

Josh Sheluk: And talk about IPOs? I think that will will feed into some of the other points and and the more minutiae this deal.

Colin White: Okay. So the answer is no. Next question.

Josh Sheluk: Okay. Okay. Let’s move on. Okay. So what but why do you say no?

Why do you say no? Where does that come from?

Colin White: There’s a few things that are going to how they design an IPO. It’s designed to be in the favor of those making the IPO. It’s only gonna come to market under favorable conditions. So there’s there’s ways that they can control that. So they have a lot of PR behind it.

They have a lot of mechanisms that they can use to make themselves look really attractive, you know, and for that moment in the sun. And there’s there’s still mechanisms and we’ll we’ll dip into this. There’s things like that called torque, like what percentage of the company is actually going public. So if it’s a small percentage of the business, this is very common during the .com days. So we take a very small percentage of the float, throw it into the market.

And because it was a small supply, price would get perhaps artificially valued at a higher level and then therefore increasing the value of the founders or the original shareholders because, again, the way they value it is based on the most recent trade. So there’s there’s a lot of mechanisms that can be pulled and it’s kind of an asymmetric relationship. The the the person coming to market gets to decide if they wanna sell and they will typically only sell under conditions that are favorable to them. And it’s probably one of the more manipulated visible things out there because, you know, typically, if you’re buying a stock, you’re thinking that, you know, hey. I I think the market hasn’t accurately valued the stock at this point in time, and therefore, I could take advantage.

And it’s just a really, really difficult time because there’s no real track record that you can look at that means anything with regards to how the company’s performed. It’s it’s very cloudy. It’s very murky. It’s it’s very heavily manipulated by big players and the average retail investor, you know, is just going to be ground up in the gears. Did can you make money on an IPO?

Absolutely. Is it clear that you can? No. I think it’s it’s probably the most difficult time. As we look at another company that’s been in existence trading publicly for ten, fifteen, twenty years, okay, maybe you can learn something about them and the markets had a lot of time to self level so the pricing should be a little bit more understandable or relatable to the business.

IPOs are just pure speculation, and I don’t feel that retail investors should be speculating with any money that means anything to them.

Josh Sheluk: Yeah. Well, I think the thing to that I would just highlight from what you said there is, are you, as a business owner, are gonna sell your business when the market is poor? No. The the obvious answer is no. You’re gonna wait until the market is very, very favorable and things are looking very, very rosy for your business, and you’re gonna sell your business at that time, which means the price is gonna be high, which means the hurdle or the bar is gonna be high for for excess returns going forward.

So that’s, I think, by and far the biggest thing. That’s that’s an impediment to be these being really wealth creating investments. But we can look at the facts too. Right? And that’s I stumbled upon mister IPO, as I was telling you not long ago.

So this is an academic who’s done a lot of research and studying and provided a lot of statistics on historical IPOs going back like forty or fifty years. And we’re looking at thousands of IPOs now and how they perform. And so interestingly enough, because you hear IPOs are a bad investment a lot of times, and I’ve been hearing this as long as I’ve been in the industry, and I I think by and large, that’s true. But, you know, he kinda breaks it down in a little bit more of a nuanced way. And and there are ways to make money off of IPOs, I think, consistently, but the trick is you need to be an investment bank to do that.

For an individual

Colin White: Well, yeah.

Josh Sheluk: Oh, yeah. Very, very challenging.

Colin White: If I can collect my 9% fee, yeah, I’m gonna make all kinds of money off IPOs.

Josh Sheluk: Yeah. Yeah. So so, anyway, I was going through parsing this research a little bit, and IPOs in general, on average tend to lose money. Not not just underperform the market. They tend to lose money.

That’s pretty significant because that’s how you should be grading any of your investments relative to a market related investment. How is this performing? And, again, on average, it’s it’s quite poor. Now if you can get in at the IPO price, which is the investment bank, right, there tends to be a very, very attractive first day return. If you’re everybody else, including us, you’re buying probably sometime on that first day.

Your return outlook is is very, very poor from that point forward. And that’s pretty much no matter how how you slice and dice the data. Top to bottom, side to side, that’s the way that it works out. So the real reason I would say avoid IPOs is I like to invest based off of probabilities. The probability is if you do IPO investing enough, you’re gonna lose money on it, or you’re not gonna perform as well as the market for sure.

Colin White: A little bit deeper into it. So I’ve watched the private equity guys who are trying to buy businesses saying, it’s like, I wanna buy businesses growing at 20 to 25% per year. It’s not founder specific. It’s got a, you know, a good team that runs itself. You Those are the businesses I wanna buy and say, well, shit, if I owned a business that was growing 20 to 25% per year, then it was on autopilot and had no risks.

Why would I sell it? Like, I can’t reallocate that capital into another similar investment. So when somebody gets to the IPO stage, you can infer from that, that the perhaps the largest part of the growth of the business is behind them and they don’t think that the future looks as rosy as the history has looked. Because again, it was gonna continue to be in a magnificent investment and continue to grow, they would probably be less likely to wanna go public with it.

Josh Sheluk: Well, that brings us to SpaceX as a potential investment opportunity. And as we said, it’s fairly unique that it’s the largest IPO in history by dollar available. It’s one of the largest by market cap IPOs in history, the value of the business. So there’s a couple of things that make SpaceX unique. One is the size of the business.

And so I was looking through this data to see, do larger IPOs, larger companies at IPO tend to perform better or worse than the others? And seems like the dispersion is wider as you’d you’d expect. There’s there’s, if it’s a large company, there’s fewer big winners, but there’s fewer big losers. But on average, I guess, they tend to perform a little bit better, still lose money relative to the market. But the other part was the valuation, and we know now that the valuation of SpaceX is, like, a 100 times sales or something like that.

So the value of the company is about a 100 times what it earned in revenue over the past twelve months, and those companies tend to be the worst performing ones. So you could look at this through a bit of an optimistic lens on SpaceX specifically or a bit of a pessimistic lens on SpaceX specifically. I I think no matter how you slice it, it’s gonna be a challenging environment for this company.

Colin White: Well, yeah. And it’s it’s not just SpaceX. It’s a bit of an amalgam, and this is where but, Josh, come on. First 16 pages are pictures of rocket ships. Like, I mean, who doesn’t wanna own a rocket ship?

Josh Sheluk: Yeah. Interestingly, not even the biggest part of their business. Right? Biggest part of their business is launching satellites into space for connectivity.

Colin White: So Yeah.

Josh Sheluk: Yeah. Bit of a bit maybe a bit of misdirection there, but we talk about SpaceX, but, really, what we’re talking about is some of the the very, very large IPOs that are coming Yeah. To market this year. Because it’s not just SpaceX rumored, reported, OpenAI as well, and Anthropic as well coming to market at some point later this year with IPOs. And the three of those combined are gonna be three of the largest companies by market cap to IPO in history.

And, actually, I I heard that if you add the three of them up, their market cap is about 50% of all of the IPOs that have listed over the last fifty years. So that’s pretty crazy when you think about it.

Colin White: I’m gonna go on the record or I am on the record that an individual retail investor trying to trade one of these stocks right now, they’re just they’re just gonna get caught up in the stream like it’s there’s there’s nothing really there’s no information out there that you’re gonna grab on to that hasn’t already been fully analyzed and or built into the stock. And you’re gonna collide with really big traders doing really big things. Part of the issue is how disruptive could this be to the overall market? Like, because it’s of such a size that it is going to potentially cause some ripples. And I think that is the part that’s a little bit more concerning, that, you know, could affect the average retail investor, and they should be aware of it.

Josh Sheluk: So you mentioned a couple of things that are happening with this one as well that are, again, a little bit unusual. But let me push back on one of these things that you said. So you’re you don’t have any information that’s available that the market doesn’t have. But what about the fact that these SpaceX specifically is gonna be introduced to the Nasdaq, to the FTSE, to the Russell indexes within the next week from when we’re recording this? Isn’t that going to provide an amazing boost for buying for the stock and drive up the stock price even higher?

Colin White: Oh, come on, Josh. You know, I said the fact that’s not known. Right? This is the biggest fifteen day period of front running in the history of markets, I believe. I have to do some research to to to to back that up.

But now this gets into some of the games that’s going on. Right? So let’s just dive in for half a second because we shouldn’t go too deep with this, Josh, because we’ll lose me pretty quickly. I mean, can go an inch deep in this pond, but this pond goes down for a little bit. But the one of the things that they negotiated because the Nasdaq really wanted to get this listing.

So Elon went to Nasdaq and negotiated with them and accelerated track to be included in the passive index of the index for the Nasdaq. So what that means, like indexes we think are these holy things that are passed down from the top of the mountain. They’re just, you know, so immaculate that they’re amazing in their purity. They’re not. They’re a product.

They’re a product that are put up by companies and they change and this is a great example of it. So Elon went to to the Nasdaq and said, I wanna get included on your index. How fast are you willing to include me in the index? Because in his mind, that’s gonna force actually, it’s gonna force a whole bunch of people to buy the stock. So it’s a guaranteed audience.

Right? So he negotiated that it was gonna be fifteen days. And Josh, I don’t know he wrote it normally. It’s, like, normally months. There’s a lot much longer period.

Like, he this is a dramatic shift from from where it was in the past, and it’s different by index as well. But he got it down to fifteen days. It’s like, okay. So it’s gonna go to market and everybody buying it right now knows that on that fifteenth day, all the passive strategies are gonna be forced buyers. So the simple math is, my God, like there’s gonna be so many buyers on that day.

I’m gonna jump in right now and I’ll sell to them when they buy because that’s gonna drive the price up. You’re not the only one that knows that. And if you think that the pastors are sitting back and not hedging in one way or another about this exposure, you haven’t been in show business long enough. So that goes in the category of it’s widely known. So the net effect on that day, the fifteenth trading day is going to be the net effect of all of the strategies, all of the biggest players in the planet have initiated trying to position each other.

I just spent the weekend watching the sailing. So the sailboats were always talking for position and they were all headed to the same point, but they’re all trying to get there differently because they were picking their strategy. Right? So whose strategy is actually gonna get to the most money at the finish line? Well, it really depends on the the confluence of all the different strategies coming together.

You’re not gonna pick one data point and said, this is the one thing that is true. No. Come on. Pay attention. There’s like, I don’t know how many thousands of different ways to play this on hundreds or thousands of different scales.

And that’s all gonna play out. If you’re right, congratulations. But you gamble like that and go to the casino, they’ll give you free drinks. Do we wanna get into the other leverage and stuff that they they use to goose up their percentage of the of the index? Was that was that two stone?

Josh Sheluk: Well, there’s a float adjustment. That’s what you’re talking about, I think. So but but anyway, I just wanna kinda highlight this point. I think the more obvious that something is, the less able you are to make money off of

Colin White: it. Mhmm.

Josh Sheluk: Yep. It’s as simple as that. So we knew all this before SpaceX came to market that all of this was going to happen with the index inclusion. So it seems that there’s no chance to make money off of it because it it was telegraphed from before it IPO ed. And, actually, you’ll be surprised, Colin.

There’s been research on this too. And whether there’s actually a bump from positions inclusion in an index. Right? And you could look at the S and P 500, which is probably the most followed index on the planet, and there’s probably more passive money in the S and P 500 than I’m going to guess any this is just speculation on my part, but I think it’s probably educated guess. There’s probably more passive money tracking the S and P 500 than any index on the planet.

And the research shows you that the the bump on the day that a company is included in the S and P 500 these days is basically zero.

Colin White: That’s everybody knows what’s coming.

Josh Sheluk: Exactly. Exactly. And it’s like, k. You know it’s coming a week in advance, so you’d position for it a week in advance. But then you know that that week in advance is coming too, so you position for it a month in advance.

How how early do you actually position for something? So interestingly, the research showed that back in the nineties, there there might’ve been some ability to front run this stuff, but that was a long time ago, Colin. Oh. If you don’t know. Oh.

Colin White: Yes, it was a long time ago.

Josh Sheluk: The other part that you mentioned, so just to trash as possible. So most indexes will not base the inclusion, the stock’s inclusion, and the weight of that stock based just on the value of the company, but how much of the shares are available for public consumption. So in the SpaceX scenario, I think somewhere around 95% of the shares or 95% of the ownership of that business is still privately held within a few hands of the founders and early investors. And the other, I believe the exact number is 4% of the of the company was what we call free float. So it’s available to the public.

And there can be different values of that depending on which company that you’re looking at, but these indexes usually adjust the weight in the index based off of how many shares are available for public consumption. So you could debate whether that’s right or wrong, but in this case, Nasdaq said, well, we’re gonna adjust the weight of SpaceX to three times what we would normally would have for any other company just based off of the the the public float that’s available.

Colin White: Elon was saying, either do that or I’m gonna go list somewhere else. Oh, no. No. No. No.

No. No. We we got you. We got you. Like, we’ll give you three times.

And it was funny because you were the one that pointed out because the other thing that’s gonna play out here is that there’s another 50 or 40 some percent of the company that’s going to be eligible to be sold as lockup periods expire over the next six months. And the straight line math and again, the straight line math is always wrong. It’s like if that goes to market at a certain valuation that would make it larger than meta as a percentage of the index with based on that lever, which again for a brand new company that doesn’t make any money that’s trading at a 100 times sales doesn’t make a lot of sense. I mean, for those of us who are live in the nineties, and watch the tech wreck, not saying this is that but it rhymes Like, there there there are some things about it that rhyme. But apparently, that’s been capped as threshold they’re gonna go through where the the multiplier is gonna go away, will be another inefficiency in the market for a moment that everybody’s gonna try to trade around.

There’s a lot of gamesmanship that goes on. A lot of very big players with very deep pockets are trying to basically tack across the wind to try to find the best currents to get to the finish line with the most money. So but it’s a big, very expensive game to to to play short term trading like this for sure.

Josh Sheluk: Can I defend the indexes for a second?

Colin White: Please. Absolutely.

Josh Sheluk: You you didn’t expect me to say that, but so when you think of an index a benchmark or a passive investment of some sort, in my view, it should be a fair representation of the economy or the value of the things that exist in the economy. And so if SpaceX is a $2,000,000,000,000 company, which is roughly what it’s worth today, like one of the top five most valuable companies on the planet, whether you agree with that or not, shouldn’t it be part of an index? Shouldn’t it be a meaningful part of an index from an early point in its issuance? Because it stay just because it stayed private for so so long or for many years while it grew to be a substantial size, does that mean that you should not include it? Because that’s kind of what the counterargument would be.

Colin White: That’s fair. You know? But existentially, if you wanna step back even further, should an index not reflect the the the contribution to the economy of an entity and one that doesn’t make any money is not really contributing anything, so it should be excluded entirely. I mean, you know, I could go all the way there too and that would be equally nonsensical. No.

You’re absolutely right. You know, but this also goes back to the heart of what an index really is. Let’s be honest, an index is a money making machine and they’re designed to make money for the companies that have them. That’s their number one priority. Now we have taken them and they’ve leaned into and part of their ethos is this is a representation of the overall market that is done in a very inexpensive way.

That’s their value prop. Now we’re going to provide you with something out of relatively low cost compared to alternatives that you can trust is going to be an amalgam and a representation of whatever. Because there’s different indexes. Last time I looked through, there there there are thousands of indexes around the world. Right?

So each one of them is staking out and saying, we are equal weighted, small mid cap growth company, whatever, like whatever you want to put on it. So when you put that moniker on it and people count on it for being a thing, have to try to have fidelity to that. And you have to try to make sure that you’re representing that if you wanna continue to be successful for sure. Yeah. Then this is the argument that Elon put through.

Like, I’m so huge. Look how huge I am. But he also kind of threw a whole bunch of shit together in a pile to make it huge. Like, this this wasn’t a company. This is not a smoothly operating business that’s been running for ten years.

This is all of the side projects he’s had. He’s thrown altogether in a big pile. How big is the Tesla fleet that he owns of Cybertrucks? This is the largest owner of Cybertrucks, this company in the world because, well, Tesla needed to sell them to somebody. I mean, those kind of things, this isn’t just one thing.

This is a bunch of things that have been kind of cobbled together. But you you just very eloquently made the argument that has been made by very smart looking people in suits that has allowed this to persist for sure, and it’s not entirely without merit. I’ll give you that one.

Josh Sheluk: Yeah. And things that I would get up in arms over, this is really not one of them. Although it smells a little bit fishy, it’s like, yeah. I can kind of see some scents do it at the end of the day. The biggest challenge that I have with this one is the the, again, the the data on IPOs in general.

The valuation of this one specifically, like, it’s losing billions of dollars per year, yet it’s worth multiple trillions of dollars. So you really, really, really have to trust and have faith in the brilliance that is Elon to pull this into a company that’s growing at enough of a rate that it’s gonna grow into evaluation, which is I I don’t even know what that number is. I was just saying gotta be astronomical. No pun intended.

Colin White: You you just glitched. It was like growing at a rate. I I don’t I don’t even know what the rate could be that would justify this. I mean, and got a nice bonus in there for him if he ever reaches MERS. You know?

So that this this is the the document that that they’re operating by. But, Josh, do you want the happy ending?

Josh Sheluk: Yes. Give it to me.

Colin White: This is wrong on many, many levels and it’s Mel’s on many, many levels. The average retail investor can still invest in the stock market and expect to make more money there than they’re gonna make other places. These two things can be true at the same time. You know, you can have, something at this scale that’s just nonsensical come into the marketplace and the wrong people perhaps are gonna profit from it and it’s gonna hurt some people but that does not invalidate the overall idea that the stock market does every generation create value for the retail investors who invest in that. So as much as we make fun of it, this is not your excuse to go bury your gold in the backyard and yes, I’m speaking directly to Nelson British Columbia.

You know, you can still participate in the market and have a reasonable expectation. Now just don’t think you’re smart enough to be able to play, you know, the big stories like this because, yeah, they they make a lot of money or they may not. We already have some disappointed people, Josh. This hit $2.20 as a share price, you know, within the first couple of days and it’s been, you know, I wouldn’t say plummeting, but it’s not trading at $2.20 anymore. So there are already disappointed people that are invested in this trade.

Maybe not as disappointed as the Bitcoin people sitting at $63,000 valuation of Bitcoin, but there’s already disappointed people here. But I I wanna I wanna earn my title of being bleakly optimistic. Yes. This is bad. Like, yes.

They’re playing all kinds of games and they’re playing games I’m disappointed that they’re allowed to play on some level, but that’s okay. This is just entertainment. You can still make money in your S and P 500 exposure, your Canadian exposure, your global exposure. You’re still gonna be able to make money in spite of everything that’s gonna go on. Is that a good save, Josh?

Josh Sheluk: It’s a great great save, and I would just sum it up as stock market is a great place to build wealth, and it’s a little bit better place to build wealth if you avoid IPOs.

Colin White: Wow. Good job, Josh.

Josh Sheluk: Alright, folks. Thanks for listening to Barenaked Money. As always, If you’re starting to wonder whether your current financial advice is as clear, disciplined, and conflict free as it should be, maybe a conversation worth having. Josh and Colin here, portfolio managers at Barenaked Money. Our team is always open to new client relationships and conversations.

Visit betteradvice.ca to get started.

Kathryn Toope: Have you ever wondered why your financial adviser is making a recommendation? In an industry where conflicts of interest are everywhere, it’s important to understand how they affect you. For more info, contact us at Verecan. You can find us at annoyingthecompetition.com. For more information on the subject of today’s podcast or any other financial topic, please visit us online at verecan.com.

That’s verecan.com. There’s plenty of information there, or you can reach out to someone on the team. Thanks for listening. Please note, the information provided in this podcast is for general information purposes only. It is not intended as financial investment, legal tax, accounting, or other professional advice.

Our discussions are not a solicitation to buy or sell any securities or to make any specific investments. Any decisions based on information contained in this podcast are the sole responsibility of the listener. We strongly advise consulting with a professional financial adviser before making any financial decisions. Listeners should be aware that investing involves risks and that past performance is not indicative of future results. Barenaked Money is produced by Verecan Capital Management Inc, a licensed portfolio management company in Canada.

We operate under the regulatory framework established by the provincial securities commissions in the provinces within which we operate. The views expressed in the podcast are our own and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of any regulatory authority. Remember, at Farrarican Capital Management Inc, we focus on aligning our goals with yours, prioritizing integrity and transparency. For more information about us and our services, please visit our website. Thank you for listening, and let’s continue to challenge the norms of the financial services industry together.